Many years ago I remember traveling with my father when the family still had a retail gun business to the big show in Ft. Worth as it was one of the best shows in the Southwest. My hunting partner Madison recalls going to the show in the 1950's (he's a few years my senior). However, these days the Amon Carter show occupies part of one room in the Will Rogers Complex where formerly it filled the large room and two others. In any event the show this weekend was fairly decent as Amon Carter shows go these later days filling perhaps 2/3 of the large room with perhaps 500 tables and I had a fun time. I met my friend James at the door and we pretty much walked it out. Very few people will walk through a gun show with me because I am rather slow and stop to play with anything that's interesting.
I ended up walking out with four old Gun Digest's, including one from the 50's, a replacement 22 Scope for the 69A I didn't get shot this weekend, some 45 ACP brass, and some sling swivels. I tried to buy a Weaver K-6 steel tubed scope but the dealer and I ended up $5 apart and I walked. Didn't see any guns I really wanted to buy with one exception I'll get to later. Most interesting gun I saw was a M43 Winchester in 25-20. These are quite hard to find but this was priced at $650 which was more than I cared to pay for one in much less than mint condition. Ran into my buddy Mike who was wheeling around his 20 month old son and enjoying the show. We start'm early on gun shows in Texas.
There were exactly four Martini's at the show - all large frames. One dealer had two Greener police shotguns ($150 and $175) and a fairly rough Mark II in 450/577 that he wanted $400 for. Another dealer had a Mark II reworked to Mark IV which had been sleeved to 45-70. I'm was fairly familiar with this gun as I had traded to this dealer at this same show a couple of years back. He didn't recognize me and he's still asking $295 for the gun. If I owned the gun today I'd be looking at restoring it by removing the sleeve and replacing the stock rather than trading if off but things change.
At the show I located a Agawam 22 single shot which is based on the original Peabody type action with external hammer. The dealer wanted $125 for it that was entirely too much for a rifle with most of the finish gone from the diecast receiver. Just down from the Agawan was a table with an Ithaca 49 (I believe this is the same model as the Agawam). This gun was in much better condition and I asked the person what she wanted for it. "Well the men are gone and I don't know the price but come back in a few minutes and they'll talk to you about it." Now we've all had the experience of going back for something at a gun show and finding it sold to someone else but I would have guessed that I constituted the entire market at this show for an Ithaca M49 and I was back at the table in less than 10 minutes but durned if they hadn't sold the gun to someone else for $75. So it goes.
Managed to make the Big Town show in Mesquite, Texas, this past Saturday. Due to an unfortunate experience with the repair of my wife's favorite recliner, I arrived at the show about 9:30 or so and managed to miss waiting in line as I at the last Mesquite show. I stayed there nearly three hours and by the lunch hour the floor was nearly wall-to-wall gun enthusiasts.
I wasn't looking for anything in particular but tend to keep my eyes oven for Martini's. There were basically six guns of interest there three of which I'd seen before. The three repeats were a Greener Cadet ($250 firm, I saw the dealer turn down $200 in almost good condition), a Greener police shotgun, and an Enfield MIV (converted fromMk. II) in 450/577. One of the guns I had not seen before was fantastic. An antique dealer had a Providence marked Peabody side hammer in 43 Peabody. It was more or less identical to the one pictured at the beginning of chapter five of de Hass's single shot rifles and was in quite servaceable condition. ($2700). The same dealer had a custom Greener large frame engraved in some large bore african type caliber. Price was about $3000. Another dealer had a Stevens Model 89 22 which is basically the same gun as the Ithaca 49 or the Agawam and figuring that this was a little more my speed than the $3K rifles I bought it. It needs stock refinishing and some touchup black paint on the aluminun cast frame but the steel parts are quite nice. We'll see how it shoots.
I did not see any Ruger Bisley's for sale at any price. I'm glad I bought mine when I did. The only other rifle I saw that I considered buying was a 225 Win. heavy barrel M70. It was a bit overpriced and I really don't need another 22. If one wants a deal on a deer rifle in this area, one must wait until January. A couple of new gun dealers were offering discounts on used trade-ins but their prices are so high that the discount was hardly an incentive to buy.
One of the trends here in the Dallas area for gun shows is that one can buy bulk Remington or Winchester bullets/brass from dealers like Blue Star out of Arkansas or Dallas reloading but powder and bullets from manufacturers like Sierra, Hornady, Speer etc. are quite sparse. Is this the case in other parts of the country? know at Tulsa one can usually buy bullets/powder but most of it comes from one Missouri dealer who travels down for this show but doesn't make it to the Dallas area shows?
According to Cloyce the Tulsa show was being advertised on the radio in the OKC area as a 3500 table show and I can well believe it as I walked past every table in the show. Twice. Hopefully, my feet and bad knee will be sufficiently recovered to celebrate the opening of deer season in twelve days in an appropriate fashion.
I believe the Tulsa show is the best show in the world and particularly is best for good quality used long guns. This show was no exception. I saw more Martini's there than I had ever noticed in one place before. There were also quite a few pre-64 model 70's and prices seemed to be down a bit on the commoner 270's and 30-06's. Wonder if the introduction of the new M70's in pre-64 style actions have caused the prices on the shooter grade guns to go down. Prices for Martini's were quite high, particularly in view of one dealer who seemed to be going along behind me on Friday evening buying up all the Martini bargains. Now I know the show doesn't open until Saturday morning but I work my dad's tables and there is quite a lot of dealer-to-dealer trading that goes on Friday. For example about mid-afternoon I examined a cadet converted nicely to 44 Mag on a guys table near the middle of the show. He wanted $400 hundred for it but seemed to be willing to deal. I had changed plans at the last minute, went to the show early, and got away without anything to trade. I wasn't much interested in it as I'm not much on small frame conversion to 44 mag. Next time I see the gun it's on a table with four other Martini's at the west end of the building with a $450 price tag on it. So it goes. Third time I looked at this guys table he had a 32 special converted from a cadet with the barrel shortened and Mannlicher style forend made from the original forend. It was nicely done in view of using nothing but parts that came with the gun and I would have liked to owned it. Too high, alas.
It's clear that quite a few of the 22's recently imported into the country made it to the show. I saw at least ten pistol grip BSA 22's priced from $300 to $550. Not many seemed to be selling at these prices however. My father said a guy came walking by his tables with an engraved target Martini that he wanted $2K for. It'd have to be pretty special. There were also a Peabody as well as a couple of Swiss Martini's for sale. I say only two original cadets but they were priced too high for my taste. Neatest gun I saw was a 6mm/30-40 Krag (6mm Ackley?) nicely done on a Enfield MII action. I wanted it so bad I could taste it but thought $700 was way out of line. This of course makes me think in terms of building a 25 Krag on my MII Enfield action. He still had it when I left Sunday too. There were a few Martini-Enfield MII's and MIV's at the show. However, either prices have risen or they were all overpriced. None seem to be selling at the higher prices in any event. A few Greeners were available with prices from $150-$300 but they were not particularly tempting. I was and am still looking for a Mark III international at the show for my friend James who is deeply into "have to have" mode for one. The only International was an old style heavy barrel gun priced at $600 with a minor stock repair. I thought it was a bit high but it sold sometime between Friday evening and Saturday morning.
Second neatest Martini was a 225 Winchester built on a small frame Wesley-Richards action. I was wandering around aimlessly checking out tables set up since I had walked through this area and spotted this gun from a couple of aisles away. Hi there. Went over and examined it and noticed the price was reasonable. However, catch 22 strikes and the owner is gone leaving his wife to watch over the table but not able to sell anything. My mom and wife find themselves in this predicament all the time. Anyway I circle the wagons for about a half hour waiting for him to come back. Oh, he'll be right back. Finally, about 6PM he hasn't shown back up and I'm examining the rifle in detail. Along comes my daughter with a "grandmother says it's time to go eat and grandpa agrees". I try to avoid going into W. C. Fields mode with a "don't bother me now kid" but the kind lady shows mercy and goes looking for her husband. About 10 minutes later they show up, I make him the archetypical cash offer, he counter offers and I pay him. New toy city. As it happens there was another Wesley-Richards Martini for sale at the show. This one was a 22 rim fire with vent ribbed stocked for a child. It was wonderful and the price of $450 did not seem way too high for the amount of custom work that went into the gun.
After scouring the show I come up with a set of 225 Herters dies (NIB!), 40 reloads, three boxes of new Winchester 55g cartridges, and 100 fired cases from Blue Star. Does anyone know if Winchester still makes the 225 in cartridges or brass? They don't seem to be listed in my last catalog. The gun has extra fancy (my father, the expert, grades it as XXX+) Fajen walnut, a new barrel, a bright and shining bore, and is in good condition except for a small wood chip on the cheek rest, some wood dings, poorly executed final finishing, minor fresh rust in a couple of places, dings on the block, and some rust pits on the receiver that did not polish out before bluing. I'm quite happy with it. However I hardly know what to do about the scope situation for it. It is set up with target style blocks for a Unertl type scope. Checking the show I could find any old style target scopes that were reasonably priced. If anyone knows where one is to be had let me know.
The only other purchase of significance was an El Paso marked Weaver K10 scope. This is to go on the 22 Jet Martini which is supposed to be ready Thanksgiving. That means that I still need two scopes-a long standard scope for the 22/256 which the gunsmith told me was ready today and the target scope for the 225. The only disappointing thing about the show was that I was unable to find bargains on the scopes I was looking for and didn't get a hunting holster for my 357 Trooper. My dad had a poor show overall but sold an expensive single action and arranged a sale on his Sioux "spirit marked" trapdoor carbine which should work out. He always does better at the spring show. And I've started to look forward to it in April already. Hope to see you there.
Market Hall (3/97)
I'm sitting absolutely ragged out from the weekend. I've been ill with the creeping crud that's going around Dallas and I spend the entire weekend out at the gunshow. This is the first Market Hall Show I've attended as an exhibitor rather than a customer. For those outside the Dallas area, Market Hall is the largest show in the Dallas Ft. Worth metroplex at around 1600 tables. The only larger shows of which I'm aware are the Tulsa show (April 5-6, 3300 tables-See you there) and Houston's Astrohall show at 2000 tables which I've never attended.
My dad (He would be the Chick of Chick's Cowboys and Indians as opposed to my late grandfather who was called Chick or myself who be named Chick. Incidently, I didn't name my daughter Chick.) came down from Oklahoma and set up three tables of antique guns-single action Colts, lever action Winchesters, a couple of Marlin's, three trapdoors, a Confederate sniper musket, a Mississippi rifle, and sundry other assorted Western guns-no plastic guns or SKS's, however. My dad stopped coming to Dallas area shows years and years ago due to the lack of interest in antique guns and only recently was persuaded to come back. Having two grandchildren fixin' to go off to college might have had something to do with it. Anyway, he sold a few guns, one Indian blanket, did a rather complex trade involving old western spurs, a Colt army percussion, and a couple of single actions and is interested enough (barely) to come back for the June show.
This show is much different from Tulsa in that at Tulsa most of the serious gun trading happens Friday evening among the dealers before the gates open to the public on Saturday morning. Here in Dallas there are very few dealers that are walking around trying to trade guns Friday night. Most of them set up, cover up, and go home. Perhaps it's something to do with Dallas Market Hall being a better retail show for new guns, particularly pistols and Tulsa being a better show for fine older guns, particularly rifles.
The show was a near wash as far as Martini's go. I recall the following Martini's for sale-an original Peobody carbine at $1700 (I'd like to own one but don't have that kinda of money), a tight Greener GP Mk.II at $189 (cheaper in SGN), a Martini-Henry sleeved to 22 rimfire for $150 (rusted junk, useful only for the action and too much at that), a Swiss Scheutzen rifle for $950 (way overpriced I think-but the value of European Martini's is hard to determine}, a BSA Mk. II target at $500 (properly priced but I don't need a competition rifle, and a 22 Jet Cadet custom gun which I offered for sale at $550 with dies (don't need it anymore since my K-Hornet Cadet got rebarreled). I did sell some Martini odds and ends. I didn't buy any guns. However, I was walking around Friday after we got set up and this one dealer had an really ugly Flobert in a varnished wooden gun case with very worn round leather handle and brass catches. The case was lined in green cloth and marked on the inside in rather large black letters-BSA Rifle and on the hinge in very small letters-Martineau Patent. There was a sales slip in it indicating it had sold used at an antique store in Sussex, England about 15 years ago. I asked him what he wanted for it and he didn't know but would listen to offers. (I hate it when they say that.) Anyway, I offered him a reasonable amount of money and he all but laughed at me but still wouldn't put a price on it. Next morning I went by his table and asked him to put a price on it. He asked an unreasonable amount of money so I paid him. I have no idea what BSA rifle went into this case originally but it looks like a smallish rook rifle or takedown Martini would fit nicely. Or as I told the lovely Linda-I'm gonna watch everyone that walks by with gun in hand and buy the first one that fits. Linda-"You paid money for a box when taxes are due!!!". If anyone has ever seen anything like this I'd sure like to know what goes in it. My father, the antique gun dealer, says it's prewar and he guesses 1890-1920.
While I didn't see any Martini's that I liked (other than the Jet), there was an absolutely wonderful pre-war Haenel, hex barrel rimfire dropping block single shot converted to 22 K-Hornet with a 15X Lyman STS mounted on it. I wanted it so bad I could taste it but couldn't afford another rifle right at the moment. Perhaps the reason I didn't see any Martini I wanted was that the 244 Rem. Rimmed Imp. which had been advertised in Gun List showed up on my FFL's doorstep last week. This custom rifle is based on a M-H action but is highly customized (the cocking indicator has been milled down to a bolt head) and completely refinished to the point that no letting remains on the action. The gun is stocked in tiger striped maple with rosewood forend tip and grip cap. The woodwork is much better than I can do and I'm immoderately proud of my own wood finishing. It came with 160 rounds of loaded brass made up from NORMA and RWS 8x57JR cases and dies. The targets that came with it suggest it is better than a 1" gun at 100 yards. It has a 26" heavy varmint type barrel on it with scope blocks. I wasted no time in fitting my 8X, 1.5"Unertl to it. Even my dad who despises light colored wood on gun stocks likes it. The finger lever has been reshaped to fit the pistol grip contour and it has had a ball welded onto the end much like the one on my K-Hornet. It is signed in enameled script something like M.A. Watoit or Wutoit or Wutart. If anyone one has any information as to the location/address of this gunsmith I'd like to have it. He can build guns for me anytime. The gun was purchased from Rusk Gun Shop in Madison, WI and the targets (looks like a better than 1" gun) I got with it are marked Suffield Sportsman Association Range and are dated 1991-92. I am familiar with the 244 Ackley improved and the 244 Mashburn but I can find no reference to a rimmed version. Wonder if I have the only one in the world? Anyway, I traded a perfectly good M70 in225 plus some money for it and I'm happy as a clam to own it. Now to find a source for 8x57JR brass or perhaps 7x57JR would work.
The Tulsa gun show is the best gun show in the world (according to my father who has rather strong opinions about most everything) and working his tables at the show every fall and spring is an event that I, my wife, and daughter eagerly look forward to. However, this past weekend I achieved the near impossible having my first unsuccessful show in Tulsa. (Now dad had a pretty good show selling an expensive silver inlaid lever action, a cased London agency Colt single action, and a couple of old S&W's. I think he bought some stuff as well but much of the show was a blur for me.)
We got into Tulsa Friday at lunch, met my mom and dad at our usual motel and got on out to the gun show at about 1:00. The promoter had changed the policy on setting up, where exhibitors can park, and where exhibitors go in which created a bit of chaos and some rather hard feelings (I'm never coming back to this show type of comments from some of the dealers). We got Dad's five tables of guns unloaded by 3:00 or so and I spent the rest of the afternoon wandering around looking for any neat Martini's that wanted to go home with me. Didn't find any which is pretty unusual for this show. I've come home with three keepers for my Martini collection in the past two years at this show. The only good news is Dad has paid my daughter five dollars to wipe off the guns this year which is the first time I didn't get to do it-gratis of course. Went out and had seafood at a restaurant that'll go unnamed. The show opens at 8AM unlike the Dallas area shows which open at 9AM. I pulled my dad's van in the last handicapped parking spot on the new dealers side door and got to wait 10minutes until 7:30 and they let us in. Walked across the floor and took the Indian blankets off our stuff making sure nothing had wandered off. (This is a very real fear-a guy two tables down had a knife stolen that he valued at $2K the next night.) Started walking out the show, not a task for the totally out-of-shape, but by 11:00 was lying in the back of my dad's van 'cause I hurt too much to sit up. Finally, had my mom drive me back to the motel and went to bed. Guess I had the worst case of food poisoning I'd ever imagined.
Sunday morning our wake up call didn't come so we all got to sleep in when the time changed. I went on out to the show to uncover our tables while those with calmer digestions went to breakfast. We stayed until about eleven which was about all I could stand in my weakened condition and then headed back to Dallas. There were almost no Cadet conversions (my main interest at the shop). I saw an overpriced 357 BSA, a magnificent custom gold inlaid engraved Greener hornet for $5K, and a cadet which had been converted to 22 rimfire with a Remington barrel which I also thought massively overpriced at $450. In truly nice guns there was an original cased high grade Westley-Richards 300 Sherwood priced at just under $4K. There were three different Peabody's for sale at the show-a What Cheer for $2500 with a cracked buttstock, a Creedmore (supposedly it walked in walked in the door and was purchased by a dealer for $1000-wish one would walk into my life), and an fairly average military contract gun. The Creedmore and the What Cheer were both wonderful and the What Cheer was owned by the gentleman who had the table next to us so he put up with me handling it perhaps a bit more than necessary considering my budget for this exotic a piece. I also saw more BSA Mk. II Internationals that I had ever seen at this show-perhaps 6 or 8 including a very nice Al Freeland gun at a pawn shop table. I only remember seeing one International at the October show, for example. There were several Martini-Enfields in very poor condition similar to the ones recently imported thru Canda but I didn't see any 577/450 military guns (there were several for sale last fall) although there were several large frame original sporting guns in British calibers. Perhaps the only bargain in a Martini I saw was a custom 45-70, fairly nicely done at $500. The usual assortment of BSA 22's, mostly heavy barreled M15's and M1215's similar to the ones imported by Navy last fall, rounds out the Martini sighting report .
Well what did I come home with? Two boxes of 7x57R RWS brass at $20/box to make cases for my 244 R.I.R. Martini (I can't believe I paid a dollar a case for starting brass), a partial box of Winchester factory ammo for my 225 Win. Westley-Richards Martini, about 15 pounds of shell holders/rams for my old Pacific press, and two bottles of Linspeed oil for the next couple of refinishing projects. So it goes. Next show, probably Market Hall in Dallas in June, will be better.
Saturday morning turned off unseasonally rainy and cold for late spring in Texas. As Linda was celebrating our 23 wedding anniversary by sleeping in, I went on out to the gun show. I had a couple of items for sale/trade-a 69A Win. 22 and a Belgium Browning Challenger pistol and figured to pick up some brass, possibly some lead bullets, and some primers. About the only guns I would be interested in would be Martini's and possibly a small carry pistol in 45. I made to the show by about 9:30 and immediately noticed the parking lot was not as overcrowded as usual probably due to the rain.
Participation in the show was down and several dealers whom I know complained of it being a dead show. Funny, I had heard similar complaints at the little show in Richardson last weekend. Perhaps it's that time of year. Well I didn't see any astonishing bargains there on concealed carry pistols and there was only one Martini in the entire show.
This Martini was a bit different. It was a Martini-Henry marked Enfield1874 with the Mark II Roman numeral stamped slightly off line. The date and the marking would indicate that it was a Mark I later converted to M.II. However, it did not have the ladder type front sight but instead had a simple "v" sight which could have been made from the ladder sight. However, there was no indication that a ladder sight had ever been installed on the barrel. The barrel and action S/N's matched but there was no rifling in the barrel! As the rear sight would be appropriate for a shot cartridge and Lewis's booklet on the 45 caliber Martini-Henrys describes a 577/450 buckshot load containing eleven .275" diameter lead balls, I wonder if perhaps the gun was manufactured for this cartridge. The muzzle bore measured about .470" or so.
The M-H Henry was owned by an old gun trader I'll call Red. I doubt if he would know me from anyone but he and my grandfather (gone for nearly 20 years) used to hang out at gun shows together way back when. Small world. Red normally deals in old collectible rifles-usually Winchesters and military items. I'd never seen a Martini on his table and he's at most of the local shows.
Anyway, I traded him some money and the 69A for the old unrifled M-H. I don't know what the history on the gun is but it's sure different. Didn't find much of anything else. I bought a box of CCI small rifle primers which I've started using in my Martini's as I'm told they are harder than the Winchester primers I normally use and resist extruding back ito the firing pin hole. I also bought four old reloading digests so at least I'll have something to read.
In other late breaking Martini news, I spoke with the gunsmith at H&S in Odessa who is building my 25 Krag and he had the barrel on the lathe and anticipated delivery in three weeks or so. Just what I need-a couple of pieces of myrttlewood to carve and sand until they become a stock set. My 32-20 is still not back from having the firing pin bushed yet so that's another worry. I did work out a technique to make brass for my 22/256. However, when I went to the gunsmith this past week to arrange metal finishing he was closed so that'll have to await another opportunity. I think I've come to agreement to purchase a Martini in 45-70 that my dad located. Since I haven't seen it yet I hardly know what to think except that it's set up for a 10X Unertl for some unfathomable reason. Well, I've got to close this down and go back to working on the new version of the Martini Gallery. Thanks to everyone who's sent me material for the web page.